The Irish hip-hop trio Kneecap got their start rapping about drugs and their ire toward the British government. They're still doing that. But according to member Mo Chara, their new album, Fenian, is a bid to be taken more seriously as musicians, to "not just be seen as a parody act."
Given the album's subject matter, it's easy to imagine Kneecap has made progress on that front. The song "Palestine," featuring Palestinian rapper Fawzi, is a message of Irish solidarity amid Israel's war in Gaza. Another track, "Irish Goodbye," honors one of the bandmates' mothers, who died by suicide. "Carnival" details Mo Chara's legal troubles last year, complete with real recordings of fans shouting "Free Mo Chara" outside the courthouse.
Fenian is the group's third album, and on it, they're reclaiming a word from their native tongue. "Fenian" originally referred to an ancient Irish warrior. Then, in the 18th and 19th centuries, the word was embraced by Irish rebels fighting for freedom from the British. More recently, it evolved into a pejorative term.
"In modern times, it was used as a derogatory slur against Irish people in the North," says Kneecap's Móglaí Bap, referring to the divide between Irish republicans and British loyalists in Northern Ireland, which is part of the U.K. "If you're Irish and called a Fenian, it was like you were backwards or uncivilized."
The power and politics of language have always been at the center of Kneecap's work. The Belfast-based group raps primarily in Irish, with English woven throughout.
"I don't think a lot of people know that young people in Belfast speak Irish willingly, and I think that's a big part of our music, is this identity that needs to be seen and heard," Móglaí Bap says.
Kneecap's political messages extend beyond Ireland. The trio is perhaps best known for their pro-Palestinian activism — and for being outspoken critics of Israel.
"The Palestinian cause is very close to the Irish people's hearts, for obvious reasons in my opinion," Mo Chara says. "After 800 years of colonialism, we watch what's happening in the Middle East and we relate to it."
The group has endured backlash for their viewpoints. Several countries, including Canada and Hungary, have banned them from entering or performing there.
There's also been legal trouble. While recording Fenian, Mo Chara spent time in court in London over a terrorism charge for allegedly displaying a Hezbollah flag during a show. He denied the charge, saying he picked up a flag that was thrown onto the stage without knowing what it represented. The case was ultimately dismissed.
Mo Chara says his legal problems disrupted the making of the album — but also shaped it.
All Things Considered host Juana Summers sat down with Mo Chara and Móglaí Bap to discuss what drives Kneecap to keep making music.
This interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity.
JUANA SUMMERS: Who are your musical influences? What did you listen to growing up that's helped you kind of make your own sound?
MÓGLAÍ BAP: Ireland is such a small country, like we're kind of influenced by so many different genres. One of the genres would be rebel music, which is a type of folk music that's geared towards rebellion, which is a big thing in Ireland. Of course, there's a band called The Rubberbandits, which were a hip-hop duo from Limerick, who were one of the first hip-hop groups to use Irish accents and Irish colloquial terms in their hip-hop. So that was definitely a big influence when I was growing up in my teens, of like, how can we depend on our own culture, on our own craic, to create music?
MO CHARA: Everybody who was rapping in Ireland at the time were using American accents or emulating American culture. So [The Rubberbandits] were the first to do it that wasn't all braggadocious. Because I don't know how much you know, but Irish people … we're very, very self-deprecating. We're the opposite of braggadocious. So like, as much as we love hip-hop and storytelling, being braggadocious is not something that comes naturally to us. Therefore, whenever we've seen The Rubberbandits being able to talk about… [how] horses are more superior than cars and stuff that were Irish, that was something that we gravitated towards very, very quickly.
SUMMERS: I know that at the time you were creating this album, Mo Chara, you were dealing with some legal challenges, terrorism charges. What was it like creating new music while also facing that sort of legal pressure and uncertainty?
MO CHARA: It was fantastic. No, I'm joking. There was a lot of pressure, as you can assume. It was a hindrance. A lot of bands are able to lock themselves away for a load of weeks and make an album that they've already [written]. But for us, we had to split [those] seven weeks in half and go to the Magistrates' Court in London. We also had, as another hindrance as we put it at the time, a massive gig in Wembley [Stadium]. In hindsight, they weren't hindrances at all. They were actually massive inspirations and influences for the album. We were able to go to the court and get samples from outside the court [of fans saying] "Free Mo Chara."
SUMMERS: What do you say to the critics out there who suggest that your music "amplified political violence," as a Canadian Parliamentary secretary said last year when you were banned from entering Canada?
MÓGLAÍ BAP: I think they're very fast to criticize us and not so fast to criticize all these factories that create weaponry that is used in Israel. And I think [weapons manufacturers] are the biggest people who need to be criticized, not bands. But I think [government officials] want to look at bands instead of looking at the actual people who benefit from this. There's a big profit being made in this war, and [weapons manufacturers are] the people who should be criticized.
SUMMERS: Your band has become well known among fans as well as critics for your outspoken comments about Israel's war in Gaza, the plight of the Palestinian people. Can you talk about that? Do you have any regrets about being so vocal?
MO CHARA: What would I regret?
SUMMERS: I mean, you guys have seen consequences, for example, losing your North American visa sponsor. There's been media scrutiny.
MO CHARA: That never happened. We didn't lose our North American visas. There's massive miscommunication and misinformation about that. What happened is, we did have our promoters at the time, and we kind of decided, you know, mutually to move along to another promoter. And then we decided, OK, let's not apply for visas right now. We were never denied visas or had our visas stripped. But you have to understand, and I think what I'm about to say may be very, very hard for Americans to understand this, but we are Irish. And we grew up as Britain's first colony. We had 800 years of colonialism. At the end of the day, we understand colonialism. We have been subject to forced starvation, which was called a famine, the same thing that we witnessed a few years ago in Gaza and still witness. That is something that, as an Irish person, it sparks something in your DNA. It's not in your nature and you're not willing to stay silent and watch this happen to another people. So you have to understand, we're not doing this for no reason. We watch what's happening in the Middle East and we relate to it. Maybe it's not on the exact same level because of how technology has advanced. We were never bombed from the skies. But I would push Americans to at least strive to understand where we're coming from there.
Editor's note: Israel has denied accusations that its policies have led to starvation in Gaza and says restrictions on food aid were designed to prevent it from falling into the hands of Hamas militants.
SUMMERS: Politics are so present throughout this album. I want to ask you about the song "Palestine." It features a Palestinian rapper and lyrics that say, in part, "We won't stop until everyone is free." Tell us about that song.
MÓGLAÍ BAP: Palestine has been something that we've been involved with, like, before Kneecap, and growing up as a teenager, we used to go to protests and stuff. In 2018, we helped my brother who started a gym at the Lajee Center, at the Aida Refugee Camp in Palestine, in the West Bank. We helped, with other bands, to raise money for that gym. So then he met his fiancée there. She's from Ramallah and she was friends with [the rapper] Fawzi. He had a song called "Castro" that we liked a lot. Obviously we talk about Palestine and other international solidarity, but it was very important for us to have a Palestinian on the album because they know better than anyone else. And to give them an opportunity to use our platform. So it was very important for us to make that connection. We haven't met Fawzi yet, but online, on the internet, we had conversations with him and we were able to make that connection. Again, it's to show the parallels between Irish history and Palestinian history. To hear them both side by side, I think, is a very powerful thing.
SUMMERS: What do you think people misunderstand about Kneecap?
MO CHARA: We get that question a lot. And for me personally, I don't like to think about that too much. I think people like to be outraged. I think people get more of a kick out of being outraged than the kick they get out of relating to somebody. Regardless of what I say on this interview or any interview, the same people will be upset and outraged. And you know what? People have a right to disagree. People have a right to protest. And that's understandable. For me, I just hope people understand … [we were] friends long before this band. We believe in what's right and we do what we can. And now that we're lucky enough to have a platform, we use that platform for what we believe is good and just and right [and] unfortunately, we believe that certain mainstream media, for example, would like to portray us in a certain other way. That's not who we are as people. I think if you scratch at the surface, you'll get to know who we are from interviews in general. But yeah, I like to not dwell on other people's opinions too much because I don't think it's beneficial to anyone.
SUMMERS: Do either of you have a favorite song on this album?
MÓGLAÍ BAP: Oh. Hmm. That's a tough one. I have a few.
MO CHARA: "Irish Goodbye" is the best. But I can't give you the description why.
MÓGLAÍ BAP: That's because I'm on it.
SUMMERS: Tell us about "Irish Goodbye."
MÓGLAÍ BAP: So we were in the studio with [producer] Dan [Carey] and somebody sent me a documentary, which featured us as children with my parents. And it was the first time I seen my Ma in, like, a video with us as children. So that kind of inspired the idea of "Irish Goodbye." She's been dead a few years now, but I think it's only after a few years that you get to process death and look back at fun times or just normal times. And the song is kind of a reflection on [how] it's not all the crazy moments you miss in life with people — it's the mundane, boring stuff you miss, like sitting after dinner, talking after dinner, walking to the shop or walking around the park. So it's kind of reflecting [on] how much you miss the mundane stuff in life when you share it with somebody that you love.
SUMMERS: I know that last year you all had to cancel a planned North American tour with a lot of sold-out dates that a lot of people were excited to see. You have such a big fan base here in the United States. Do you see yourself being able to come back and tour in the United States anytime soon?
MO CHARA: Of course we'll be back. Look, I mean, it's worth remembering: No member of Kneecap has ever been convicted of any crime ever. We are not what the media portrays. So there's no reason why a government should be stepping in and saying what the American listenership should consume. I just don't think it's a good place for governments to start stepping in and telling people, which is apparently the land of free speech, of what they should be able to listen to.
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